Apple Rant: AppleCare = Shoddy Service - Apple Arrogance?

Hey Tom,

I used to run one of the largest Apple service centers in the USA. We dealt with things like this all of the time.

What astonishes me is how often people confuse AppleCare, a warranty extension, with some sort of insurance.

Apple is very clear on this issue, and when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Insurance would need to be waaay more expensive as anyone who desired a new Apple product could simply smash their old one and cash in on the insurance claim.

At issue isn't whether AppleCare should or shouldn't be insurance, it clearly isn't, and is clearly stated when you buy it.

The issue you have with Apple is whether or not your laptop was abused, or if the display spontaneously cracked on its own.

You should know that you can get a second opinion, both if you sent it in to Apple, or if you took it to an authorized service center. My experience though as a manager is that in the gray area that would define abuse versus defect or equipment failure is that Apple is *very* lenient as I've seen them approve service on many things where the product should signs of abuse. However, Apple is not one person, and someone may have a different opinion...so calling in and getting a second opinion may be worth it.

From their perspective, it sounds like the person you spoke to wasn't a tech, or wasn't the tech who actually inspected your MacBook Pro. It's not enough for them to say that the display was cracked "for some reason" and therefore reject the claim, they need to say the specific reason (for example evidence that something was placed on the keyboard when you closed the lid. Evidence that the display had been pushed down to hard. Or any other sign of abuse. The tech who inspected it can't just say, "maybe you did something...'.

That being said, from their perspective, I've never heard of a display spontaneously cracking like you described, so before you embark on the effort of a second opinion, you may want to check for your self if anything happened to the MacBook Pro that you may have been unaware of.

Lastly, I'd say that your advice on not getting AppleCare is baseless without the ability to show that there's a better deal for actually insuring a MacBook Pro, or that on average the cost of AppleCare is higher than the average cost of repair (that would've been covered) during the same period. To that last point, the stats we kept at our service center showed that in some cases the cost of AppleCare was actually less than the average cost of repair during the time period.

Of course one of the bigger reasons to get AppleCare isn't to save money on average, but rather to reduce the risk to a manageable amount, which for some situations makes AppleCare worth it even if the price does exceed the average cost of repairs.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your situation. I hope if you do get a second opinion, that they do cover the repair. Don't give up...be a squeaky wheel if necessary and they will end up covering just about anything.

I feel your pain Tom. They'll be telling you next it's a pre-existing condition...

Funnily enough, I had a very similar issue with my new Dell Latitude, but with way better results.

I recently traded up to a top of the range Dell as I typically have my laptop on for work for at least 10 hours a day, if not more. So... I needed a workhorse that would be able to manage that kind of work (and I am not ready to jump to Mac just yet).... So I got a Dell with SSD, upped the RAM etc etc. I also took out the extended warranty/pro support for two years/next day on-site repair option. A couple of hundred bucks but I think well worth it...

Anyhow... I had a screen issue and Dell sent someone out to replace the screen three times and the motherboard once. No good. Now Dell are sending me a new unit, and they've been superb about it really. They explored all other avenues first, which is good.

Disappointed as I was that a top of the range Dell would develop an issue after only a couple of month, hey, that's life. I just wanted to say that decent service is out there... Am sure there are Dell customers who have had a not so good experience but mine was great.

Little victories, huh?

Mark, thanks for your Dell experience.
Kevin: AppleCare is a type of insurance in that it protects the buyer in so much as that under normal conditions of use the machine will continue to work.

I've no idea if the lowering and raising of the lid can lead to a crack but I would consider that would be normal use and I would consider it should be covered under AppleCare. There has at no time been any excessive pressure on the screen.

I can assure you and anyone else that the system lived on my desk, a peaceful environment. The only trauma might be from my typing, I have a somewhat heavy hand because I grew up using typewriters. But even here, it shouldn't exhibit this problem, there has to have been some kind of manufacturing defect to make it susceptible to this.

I never travel with it I use my Macbook Air which is far lighter (but overheats if running video.)

Tom,

"AppleCare is a type of insurance..."

Stop right there. It's not insurance. It's a warranty extension. If you're still confused about this, see:
http://www.apple.com/support/products/proplan.html

As for the rest of your response, I can't argue with you because I haven't seen your display, but you're claiming that the display, after some period of time, cracked on its own and that nobody else had access to it such that they could've caused the damage without you knowing.

Now the cracking on its own may be possible, but I never saw it in the years I spent running one of the largest Apple service centers in the country. If you really believe it happened without abuse, you should really get a second opinion. The service techs, and even their managers don't have any vested interest in denying your claim other than in wanting to do their jobs correctly by not covering abuse.

It's not that hard to look for what caused the damage. Apple owes this to you, and you're going to want to know what caused it to prevent this from happening again in the future (regardless of how it happened).

But more importantly to your audience, your advice is baseless: "that it's better to save the several hundred dollars on AppleCare and insure it yourself. That's what I should have done. AppleCare sucks - don't use it is my advice."

Why are you giving advice like this with no objective data to support it or references to where insurance would be a better option?

Kevin: Thanks for your advice. Others can make their own decision regarding AppleCare. I've stated what happened to me and it has not been a good use of my money. I don't travel with it and have no idea how it could have gotten damaged. I suspect there was a fault with the screen that got progressively worse over time. And I've spent long enough with Apple trying to get it fixed. I'm done wasting time. I sent off for a replacement screen and will do the repair myself.

"I sent off for a replacement screen and will do the repair myself."

I strongly recommend you hire someone both familiar and skilled at repairing Macbook Pros. I have an incredible memory and I wouldn’t begin that repair without the take-apart doc and all the right tools (including black sticks and a proper ESD workstation). You might be about to find out why that repair so expensive. It's a royal pain to do and very difficult to do right.

My advice is to connect the MBP to an external display, keyboard, and mouse, and enjoy it for a few more years.

Thanks for the advice Paul. But I need two screens to do my work, one just doesn't cut it. I have no choice at the moment.

Tom: Thanks for this post. Really helped me in making a decision whether to get AppleCare or not. I'm buying my first Apple in a few weeks under the Education discount where both the MacBook Pro and AppleCare prices are nice and low. Big thing is that I'll be moving to West Africa in less than a year and was trying to figure whether Apple would care to fix any problems, if need be; however, judging by the response given from a manager at one of the largest Apple service centers, I think agree with you that I would just be wasting money. And you don't have to show me the data. It's not AppleCare ($200) vs. Insurance ($???), to me it's AppleCare ($200) vs. No AppleCare ($0).

I am pretty technically minded, so I believe that I can handle most technical problems without telephone support by reading forums and investigating prices, as you probably did. I also seriously doubt that Apple would fix any problems with my computer if it really needed it... I mean, duh... I'll be in West Africa. And, if it really breaks on me sometime between 1 and 3 years after purchase, I'll just get a PC... or then again, in a few years (cross your fingers), a new 13 inch MacBook Pro may be going for $700... and a used version of the model I'm gonna purchase now may be even less... It's a risk I'm more than willing to take.

Kevin: Thanks as well! I think your comments really shed light on what AppleCare really is... "warranty extension". Hopefully, you understand that your intelligence in this matter is much greater than the average consumer. Somewhere along all the the pretty fonts, imagery, and advertisements, mere mortals, such as myself, fall into the belief that Apple is willing to go as far as to drop a genius from a helicopter in the sky on riding Pegasus with a parachute to solve my every needs.

I also enjoyed the pitch for buying a PC... or at least Dell. Like Mark, I've had LCD, hard drive, keyboard, and many other issues with Dell laptops under their basic manufacturer warranty and they don't seem to care whether I caused it or not. No needless debate. No disappointment. They just fixed it. Or repaired it. Otherwise, I believe they would give a non BS reason for why they can't fix it that didn't require 3 years of law school.

I guess this is because there is no competition within Apple's own growing market. So if Apple disappoints... so what... they don't really care... you just gotta suck it up. And, hey dummy, read the fine print next time. Reminds me of another company... wooot...

What would have enhanced the story greatly would have been a photo of the screen. Apple says its cracked & your description doesn't say if it is or isn't. The condition of the screen is unclear to the reader.

Tom, there is a crack but I've no idea why it's there. It sits on my desk, I don't travel with it. There has been nothing dropped on it or it dropped. I've subsequently found out that extreme temperature differences could crack the screen. As any Apple Macbook Pro/Air users know the Intel processors get very very hot. In some cases this can cause heat related problems. There are even third-party software apps (Coolbook) that try to deal with this problem by throttling down the power usage and heat generated.

The most revealing thing about this exchange is the emphasis Kevin puts on the question of whether AppleCare is a warranty or insurance. This is a technical legal issue which is difficult to answer and may vary from state to state. On the link to AppleCare provided by Kevin, I find no language understandable by the typical consumer that raises or answers this question. I do notice that AppleCare is provided by different legal entities in a few select states. I find lots of references to extended warranties as insurance on the internet.

I never buy extended warranties. If you do the research, you will find that they exist to increase sales and provide an additional profit to manufacturers and sellers. The costs outway the benefits in almost every instance with the possible exception of the psychic costs relieved by the perception of reduction of risk. My opinion.

The real questiion is not a legal one but whether Apple values its customers enough to stand behind its products. I suspect that additional effort would get Tom a covered repair. My own experience with a defective cell phone screen stands as an examply. My Sprint/Sanyo was 90 days old when a black blotch appeared at the bottom of the screen. Techs at the Sprint store said this was abuse even though there was no physical crack in the screen. They said it was not covered by manufactureres warranty but they would repair it for $100. They work under the assumption that if it worked when you got it, any subsequent problem must be customer abuse. Some warranty/insurance! I did not have the extended coverage provided by Sprint for $7 per month. I dialed Spring and after making it through to a supervisor, Sprint credited my account for the $100. I was out the sales tax. Legally, they had no gation to compensate me but they did. obliWhile at the Sprint store, I inquired about obtaining the extended coverage, just out of curiosity. It is not available after the manufacturer warrangy expires and it would not have covered the problem I just experienced anyway.
I have a new phone and am still a customer but I hate the fact that I had to climb up the customer service chain to find someone who was willing to leave the realm of legal obligation and step into the realm of customer advocacy to insure customer satisfaction and retention. It should not be so difficult to get satisfaction.

Tom, I sympathize, and Mack, I totally agree. I've been using Macs since my first second-hand 512k in 1986. I've rarely had to deal with customer service over the years, but my recent experience with a 4 month old dead Macbook was a nightmare. I spent hours driving back and forth to the nearest Apple store in the next state, and many more hours on the phone with customer care. Service and employees were uniformly curt, unconcerned at best and arrogant at worst. I felt like I was on trial, and needed to prove that my Macbook lived its short life sitting quietly on my desk and not being used to pound in roofing nails. I'm very low-key and really hate to complain relentlessly to get help. The whole corporate attitude left a really bad aftertaste. I sure miss that scrappy, cheerful little company I knew 23 years ago.

As someone with no stake in this (I'm not even an Apple user) I have to say that I'm with Kevin on this one.

He is correct in emphasising the difference between a warranty (covers defects) and insurance (covers abuse).

Laptops are notorious for being dropped / sat-on / otherwise abused. And of course many people, having damaged their $2,000, uninsured laptop, would have no qualms claiming the problem was a manufacturer's defect and demanding that Apple fix the problem or replace the laptop for free.

You situation is unfortunate. You are in kind of a grey area. But I think you are being unreasonable and abusing your don't you know who I am powers to unfairly attack Apple.

Thanks for sharing this post. I have been an Apple user for 20+ years and am a huge fan. However, I feel your pain and do think their "Genius" bar features less-than-Mensa personnel who are nonetheless pumped with arrogance. I understand the difference between the AppleCare Warranty and product insurance. However, Apple appears to use every excuse not to cover defects if the computer has even the tiniest scratch on it. When a processor or wireless card stops working, the "genius" takes one look at it and says "oh, this computer shows signs of abuse," we're not covering it!" IMO, the AppleCare warranty is worthless. If something is going to go wrong with the product, it's going to happen within the first month. After that, Apple won't cover anything without a fight. Luckily, the products are very good and rarely does one need to deal with the "Geniuses." I really think that good products are what has kept this company from feeling the pain that many others have experienced.

Victoria: I too have been an Apple user since year dot. I had one of the original "tombstone" Macs with 128K of RAM. But it seems Apple fans always get the shitty end of the stick. Fans pay more, while laggards get the discounts. There's no fanboy discounts. If Apple were an airline there would be no frequent flier miles.

I managed to repair my screen myself. But still no response from Apple despite lots of feedback here and on my column over at ZDNet. Does Apple care about AppleCare? Clearly not. Is this arrogant behavior? Certainly looks that way.

The little silver button on my iPhone that silences the phone fell off. Not sure how, but it did with normal use. Just went to silence it and it popped off one day. I am still under warranty AND have AppleCare untill 2011 because a previous phone just stopped being able to sync out of the blue and they said there were no repairs for that problem and that I had to purchase a new phone (which included a whole new more expensive monthly plan than the one I had with the phone I bought on the first day of original iPhone issue. yay for loyalty..ugh)

ANYWAYS, I brought my perfectly working phone with just the little popped off button to the Apple store and the first thing the guy did was shine a flashlight into the headphone jack - he said the liquid indicator sensor was tripped and that my warranty and my AppleCare was no longer valid. I'd have to buy a whole new phone again. Apparently even the smallest amount of moisture (I live by the beach which is often very humid) can make this indicator change. It turns red if dropped in water. Mine was only halfway light pink but he said there was nothing else he could do, I'd have to buy a new phone and no doubt a more expensive increase to my monthly plan again since you can't transfer your original plan to a new phone. FOR A FRIGGIN BUTTON POPPING OFF???? Since the phone works fine, I'll live with it for now, but steam knowing that if anything happens, the slightly pink dot in my headphone jack will always be a mark of "sorry we can't help you oh loyal since the Apple IIe days customer...blah..blah..blah....." Instead of paying for AppleCare next time, I'm just gonna shove a piece of cotton in my headphone jack when not using it!

Buttonless: Yes, no rewards for being a loyal customer. As I've said before, if Apple were an airline it wouldn't give frequent flier miles.

Thanks Tom for this enlightening post. I have two days left in my warranty so I talked to an Apple Genius this morning about what benefits I get if I have Apple Care. The first thing I ask is how much are the parts and labor if my iMac gets broken and have them fixed it. They quoted me some scary prices that I couldn't believe. $1,300 for the board, and around $500 for the optical drive. I wish I knew this before I bought the darn thing. I'm currently having them remove an ant that got stuck and died in the middle of the screen. They told me that if they find that the ants chewed and damaged some parts inside then that will not be covered by the warranty, nor by Apple Care. Finding their policy to be too strict, I'm opting not to get the pricey Apple Care, I'll just have to take my chances and if this breaks, I'll get a Dell.

Allan: Extended warranties are incredibly profitable. And the way they are structured gives them tremendous opportunities to provide or deny repairs. If you have some limited abilities with a screwdriver it is possible to attempt some sophisticated repairs on your own. For example, I replaced my screen by myself. Yes, it cost $230, it took a few hours, and I had to do it twice because I missed some things, but I got it done versus $1300 quoted by AppleCare. There are tons of online resources, youtube videos, etc that guide you through each step. Also, there are local mom and pop shops that offer reasonable priced repairs. I would choose this route instead of paying for AppleCare. Also, it's interesting there hasn't been any online response to all my negative publicity about AppleCare. Apple doesn't care about AppleCare... which is interesting.

Insurance? Warranty? Who cares what the difference is?

When I buy name-brand PCs, I usually get the maximum extended warranty INCLUDING accidental damage coverage. Yes, I know that the companies make money on these hand over fist; but for me it FUNCTIONS as insurance, whatever you call it. Because the income I would lose from a broken machine when I'm on the road to a client is usually significantly larger than the cost of the warranty.

And as for "Insurance would need to be waaay more expensive as anyone who desired a new Apple product could simply smash their old one and cash in on the insurance claim...": the maximum I've paid for an extended warranty with accidental damage coverage is $400. That's double the cost of AppleCare; but accidental damage coverage has saved me days of lost income when I accidentally broke a screen. Oh, and they came to me to do the replacement. To me, an extra $200 is not "waaay more expensive".

Now not every company honors their accidental damage coverage so scrupulously. You have to watch out for that. But with a reputable company, it's a real way to earn customer loyalty. Maybe Apple doesn't care about that, but they sure used to.

If you want to repair your own Macintosh laptops, etc. I very strongly recommend ifixit.com They have very detailed instructions for teardown and replacement. I prefer them to the Apple manuals in many cases.

Not a fanboy (heck, never owned an Apple, can't even convince the boss to buy one to help me support Mac-owning customers), but I'd like to welcome you to the phenomenon known as the Instalanche.
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/84222/

Apple might just sit up and take notice now...

The arrival of Apple Stores, plus the vastly improved fortunes of Apple itself, have led to the drop in customer service I think.

Seven years ago, my Mac Pro -- covered by AppleCare -- developed a problem (can't remember what) that AppleCare fixed pretty quickly. They sent a box overnight, I placed my computer in it and shipped it back, then about five days later, I received a ship-shape computer, cleaned up and ready to go.

Two months ago, the video card in my Mac Pro choked to death on dust (I think) and AppleCare said they would fix it. This time, I had to make an appointment at the local Apple Store, take it in, talk to a rep and then leave while it was fixed. I was told it would take 3 days. Parts shortages made my wait even longer. A week later, after me checking up on them (they didn't let me know what the status was, and the online status page was no use either), I had to return to the Store and cart it back.

It's not that I had a *terrible* experience, but for what I paid for AppleCare, it feels like I'm not getting my money's worth. And Apple has lost its touch as a "company that cares."

I should add that I was talking about two different Mac Pros LOL...

I'm with Martin. If you're going to get an extended warranty, get one that they can't wiggle their way out of. After getting shafted by Sony, I got a Thinkpad specifically because they put that warranty front and center.

Thinkpads aren't the only computers that have these sorts of offers. Not sure if Apple does or not. If they don't... I find that rather suspicious.

I'm surprised that a customer service manager would give that kind of response. If that shows the cultural attitude towards the average customer, then Apple is in jeopardy with every competitor's new product. Think, "Yeah, I used to buy Apple, but X has the same features and their customer service doesn't suck."

"I used to run one of the largest Apple service centers..."

"What astonishes me..."

"You should know...."

This is EXACTLY why I don't have Apple anything. Their stance on everything is that they are smart and correct and you the customer are too stupid to do more than follow their instructions.

MP3 player - set it up however I like. Upload, download, store files, whatever.

iPod - You'll use iTunes. You'll use it our way. You will not make any changes from our divine plan and you will like it. Just be thankful that we are gracious enough to let you look cool by using one.

PC - install whatever you want, however you want. Get as deep into the details of how it runs as you like.

Mac - This is how it works. You can not change anything about how it works because it is clearly perfect and any alteration would be a desecration of it's magnificence. Besides, you're probably too dumb to do it right anyway.

Heh, I love how the first comment, from Kevin-the-former-Apple-employee is also kinda arrogant, as well.

I also find the idea that one has to pay a very big tab to get the warranty that should be provided free with the product offensive. That said, I have never had any problem with my IMAC but have been through 2 E-machines, a Toshiba notebook, a Gateway laptop, an HP desktop (refused to honor their warranty), an Acer, and a no name laptop over the last 5 years. The only reliable computers I have owned have been a Sony laptop and that IMAC. Stay FAR away from HP as their warranty is dung

My daughter has a Macbook Pro with Applecare. She had a minor accident that put a very small dent in the corner of the case shortly after purchase. She had the local Apple folks check it out and they indcated that it wasn't a problem. Two years later the mouse pad stopped working due to the notorious overheating problems with this model. This was at the end of her semester, a tense time for her especially losing her computer. The local folks would not honor her warranty (which is in fact narrowly defined insurance)saying it was the dent that caused the overheating problem. Their solution was for her to buy a new machine.

The end of the semester happily coincided with Christmas shopping season so my daughter and I had a very open and frank discussion with the store assistant manager on why should we buy another Apple product if they won't stand behind the product she previously purchased. The assistant manager was astute enough to see that everyone else in the store was watching and listening to a very dissatisfied customer and a very upset college junior. We were able to come to an accomodation although I felt I got ripped off a bit.

She recently had another problem with her computer and even though she was beyond the Applecare warranty and the repair warranty they agreed to fix the problem as it emanated out of the original overheating issue.

It appears that each store has a fairly wide margin for authorizing repairs so being persistant without being obnoxious may pay off.

I wrote this post five weeks ago and it still attracts lots of bad stories about AppleCare but there is nothing from Apple. By not leaving a comment, Apple comes across as seeming arrogant, and that it doesn't care that there is a conversation going on about its warranty service.

This flies in the face of "proper" behavior by corporations on the social web. There are a gazillion social media consultants that advise the largest of corporations to listen out for such conversations and to become involved pretty damn quick. In fact, they should be monitoring the web in real-time.

This is a mistake because this post will continue to be surfaced by search engines and sharing services, time and again. This post will continue to gather stories about Apple that are not beneficial to its brand.

And these are stories that are thoughtful, and well written, these are not the rambling nonsense of trolls.

You would think Apple would want to take part, even just something along the lines of: "Thanks for sharing but unfortunately there is nothing we can do, we have to stick to our policies. But we value your custom etc." At least it would show that someone is listening. That can go a long way in defusing bad feelings.

"Lastly, I'd say that your advice on not getting AppleCare is baseless.."

His advice, based on his personal experience, is perfectly reasonable. His perspective is accurate from his point of view.

He had an expectation of Apple, and those expectations weren't met. Apple failed him. They didn't live up to their image or their (perceived) standards. He spent money that he felt was wasted I think it would be *unreasonable* to not pass that advice along.

Having used Apple Care for years on the many Apple products I have bought for my family, I have two things to say:
1. I always buy Apple Care because they have fixed things for us that were absolutely caused by the very human errors of my three sons.
2.The single worst customer care experience in my life came at the hands of Apple care techs. I sent in my iPod and they refused to fix it because they said it had evidence of physical damage. I insisted that the iPod I sent in had NO physical damage. Many, many hours spent on hold and arguing and screaming in frustration later, I gave in and told them to send me back my iPod. They did. It had no physical damage. I took it into the Apple Store and they replaced it.

For me, #1 outweighs #2, so I continue to get and use Apple Care.

On another note, I have learned to keep a spread sheet that lists the dates Apple Care will run out on our many Apple products. That way, I can take each computer in for a Tune Up before the warranty runs out and if there are problems, get them identified and fixed for free. I've learned that the hard way...

Well, it's funny to read the responses to this thread. I'm having a very similar experience with AppleCare right now.

I recently sent in my MacBook Pro because the DVD drive stopped reading discs. I also noted there were visible dust spots on the inside of my screen. The decision came back that there was evidence of accidental damage and therefore I would have to pay $1,200 to fix the problems. I decided to skip it and buy an external drive instead.

Now, my screen has gone black - a known issue that Apple has been repairing for free (with or without AppleCare).

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

Unfortunately, they won't fix my computer unless I pay to "repair" the previous 'damage' first.

Here's the thing...

1) I never had the accident they claim occurred.

2) They haven't itemized what the accidental damage even is - so how are they really going to repair it? What do they intend to replace? Just what is my $1,200 buying me? They won't say.

3) For less than $1,200 I could buy a used replacement for my computer on Craigslist tomorrow.

I'm annoyed. In the past, AppleCare has always fixed issues and generally exceeded my expectations and I religiously recommended AppleCare to anyone who would listen. Lately though, they seem to have changed their policies and it looks like they want people to buy the extended warranty and then find any excuse to avoid people utilizing it.

It's disappointing. I'm especially annoyed since there was no accidental damage on my part. You can't debate the "evidence" with anyone. If they say it's there, that's the end of it.

I can tell you that I would NOT recommend anyone buying AppleCare for the hardware warranty at this point. Given that they're not going to cover you if you have a problem, you're just wasting your money. I don't have an alternative for you other than the sort of insurance that Best Buy sells which supposedly covers everything. If, however, you think you'll use the software support then AppleCare is probably worth it.

Apple is clearly interested in avoiding paying claims. If you're still in doubt, check out this article about their "abuse tracking" patent:

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/06/apple-researching-methods-to-detect-consumer-abuse-in-portable-devices/

Then, just for fun, here's a video of some "water damage" to a MacBook Pro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Xt8WAM1kw

March 08 I decided to buy a Mac Mini to connect to my 42inch HD TV. Of course I bought 2 years extra Apple Care for extra protection and piece of mind.

Things were going wonderfully well until Jan 09 until the Apple remote antenna stopped working. I took it to my local Apple Store in Shinsaibashi Osaka Japan. Lucky enough their is one genius Charlie who speaks English very well, and also is very helpful.

Since it was covered under Apple Care they said they would happily fix the antenna in a 7 day turn around. I gave them my Mac Mini with all its original DVD`s, Apple remote and box

Day 6 into the repair an Apple repair personal/engineer called me and said it would take a further 5 days to repair. Understandably I said this was ok, only if they could please send it to my house as I planned to come in on day 7 and pick it up. 5 days later my Mac Mini arrived only in plastic bubble wrap. No original box, install DVD`s and Apple Remote.

I contacted the Apple store in Shinsaibashi, Osaka via email and they gladly sent (What I thought was)my original box, install DVD`s and Apple Remote.

I also noticed that they had not put the Mac Mini back together probably as the lid did not sit seamlessly flush together. Although I thought that was an unprofessional job. I was just very happy to have the Mac Mini back in my family, so I looked at the bigger picture and let that issue slide.

Soon after the repair my Wife and I noticed that the Wi-Fi was a little slower than before. Comparing to my Mac Book Pro using the same Wi-Fi and also when I powered down my Mac Mini clock would reset it`s self back to 2001 and it would forget all password information.

As a Mac user for over 15 years my mind remembers that I had a PowerBook with this issue. After doing the usual things of resetting the PRAM, reinstall etc. Apple Care in the past would always just replace the Logic board. Since Snow Leopard was coming out in September. I thought I would wait it out and see if that fixed the issue. Unfortunately it did`t and instead of resetting back to 2001 it reset its self back to 2008.??

September 09 I booked an appointment with the same Genius at the Apple store in Shinsaibashi Osaka Japan. I soon discovered the box they sent me in February 09 was not the same box I gave them as the serials did not match with my Mac Mini.

The same Genius Charlie was really helpful and tested my Mac Mini and said it was ok to repair the following. Repair of Battery Coin, 3 V Antennas, Airport and Bluetooth. Card, Airmac Extreme, as I still have nearly 2 years of Apple Care. All is good I can pick up my Mac Mini in a week.

A couple days later I received a message l from someone in the Apple repair centre saying that they can`t fix my Mac Mini as it has water damage and that is not covered under Apple Care.

I have to pay ¥80000 for them to repair it. (That`s the same cost as a new one, plus I paid ¥20000 for Apple Care). I was shocked to say the least. My Mac Mini has been in the safe protection in a glass cabin under my 42 HD TV ever since it`s return from the Apple repair in February 09.
Water damage would have been impossible. Although Japan has had heavy
rainfall this year and humidity levels have been high, but 100% its has not had any liquids spilt over it.The damage must have been done when either when the Mac Mini was in the repair centre or in transit from the Apple Repair to my home. As I received in bubble wrap.

The thing is it's so minor. Clock resetting it self and the Wi-Fi is a little slower. Besides that it was working fine before I took it in. As a loyal Mac user for over 15 years I am pretty disheartening when I know in my heart I didn't do what the repair staff say.

Update: An Apple rep called me today and said they would like to offer me a ¥9000 discount on a new machine. What! The only thing that was wrong with it before I took Mac Mini in.
Was the Wi-fi a little slower and the clock resetting itself back to 2001.
And now they want to up sell me a new machine?
I have for years toll my friends and family about how good mac is and they have all been converted to the Mac. I don`t think I will buy Apple Care again and let alone a Mac.
Sad day for a MAC fan.

In August '09 I have noticed that my White MacBook has developed a hairline crack on the bottom, running thru the center screw. Since I still had AppleCare I went to visit my local Apple store at Tysons Corner in Vienna, VA. There I was told by an Apple Store "Genius" that this was a result of my mishandling the laptop and therefore not covered by AppleCare. That made me very unhappy to say the least, since my MacBook has never left the desk of my study.
I then asked to see the store manager who's name is Joshua Horner. He was not interested in listening to my arguments and proceeded to repeat the same denial of service actually implying that I somehow damaged the laptop myself. I was furious.
After getting back home I immediately called Apple Service Center's toll free number and was told that my problem WAS covered by the AppleCare.
To make an already long story shorter, my problem was taken care of to my full satisfaction within 3(three!) days, including shipping both ways.
Make your own conclusions. I did.

It seems that AppleCare is a crap shoot. And that's not the way it should be. And it also seems that Apple doesn't care a fig about what people say about AppleCare -- no comments here or anywhere.

It's disheartening to read some of these stories. I can't believe how pretty much every error becomes a 'logic board replacement - 1200usd please'. I see this every time on the forums. It's just a scam to get people to buy a new macbook, as the price difference is negligible. As an EE (microwave and high-speed digital design) with experience in production, it's ridiculous - the whole logic board, with a medium speed processor, cannot cost more than about 400usd. Add a 100bucks to open the machine and replace the board the total for logic board replacement should be 600usd.

People people people, First of all any laptop out there has the bulk of the components soldered onto the MLB. There fore sometimes even the simplest Problem may need a logic board replacement. Now you may be able to find a tinkerer that is willing to solder on a new component but a company would never take on that on because it is too much of a liability. If everybody was honest, which you know damn well you are not, Then companies and people wouldn't have to be so cautious. LCD displays do not crack on there own. That is a fact. Man up and take responsibility for your damn actions. If you can fix it cheaper your self then go ahead. YOu can't blame a company that makes quality products no more then you can blame a company because you didn't back up your data and a drive failed. No matter which way you cut that, if you do not have a back up, you are not a professional and you should quit while you are ahead.